EXCLUSIVE: Right To Dream academy director on producing top women's players & WAFCON success

How did the Right to Dream women's project come about?

"I'm not surprised you only found out about it now - our reputation has always been stronger on the men's side. But in reality, we create equal opportunities, because that's the whole point of Right to Dream: opening up pathways.

"I would say our women's strategy really took shape when the Mansour family joined Right to Dream, with the intention of building an academy in their home country, Egypt, which would welcome both boys and girls. At the same time, we founded the women's club FC Masar. We also have a men's team at FC Masar, but the women's side developed in parallel.

"And at FC Nordsjaelland in Denmark, we were among the first to set up a real structure in Danish women's football. There are clubs that, to be a bit cynical, have a women's team mostly on paper, without real investment behind it. With us, there's a full academy for girls at FC Nordsjaelland, just like for the boys. We have girls living here in boarding, exactly as on the men's side.

"We also have girls in our academy in Ghana. Originally, they were mainly on scholarship tracks, using their football training to access studies in the United States, but lately, thanks to our recruitment and development work, more and more players are actually making it to professional careers, and women's football has evolved too - there are more clubs offering contracts, so simply more opportunities for girls.

"You could say it was built in three stages: it started in Ghana as a project to help girls access education, then evolved into real professional pathways; Princess Marfo was the first to come out of the Ghana academy to join FC Nordsjaelland, before being sold to Bay FC, then returning to FC Nordsjaelland, and recently being sold to PSV Eindhoven. FC Nordsjaelland was a pioneer in really structuring this academy, and in 2021, we built the academy in Egypt, with FC Masar and our women's first team there."

African women's football is still underdeveloped and lacks visibility. Why did you choose to invest in this project?

"I have to pay tribute to our shareholders - the Mansour family insisted, from the moment they took over Right to Dream, that this should be both a men's and women's project. 

"We started by establishing the academy in Egypt for both boys and girls; it already existed in Denmark. Then we developed Ghana so that it was no longer just an educational pathway, but also a football pathway.

"I think that's our shareholders' vision: Right to Dream is for everyone, Right to Dream creates opportunities where there are none, and that should apply equally to girls and boys."

How did you build this program, knowing that women's infrastructure and clubs are much rarer in Africa than on the men's side? I suppose the approach was different from what you did with the boys.

"Not so different in approach, but you're right, the numbers are different.

"In Ghana, we do what we call "sweeps": we travel the country to spot players through tournaments and trials in different regions. At first, it was almost by chance if a girl showed up, maybe one girl for every hundred boys; then it grew little by little, and last year, we hired our first full-time female recruiter dedicated exclusively to women's football in Africa. That really shows our now fully assumed commitment to investing in the women's project on the continent."

"Every child we welcome must have an opportunity"

Is this recruitment limited to Ghana, or do you also look elsewhere? I believe some Ivorian players at this AFCON came through Right to Dream.

"Yes, we also have a structure in Ivory Coast, and those players were spotted thanks to that. They're on scholarships.

"Again, the focus is on the educational pathway, because we have a brand promise: every child we welcome must have an opportunity. That's why we're very selective - we don't take players en masse. Unfortunately, many academies, for example, take 50 girls and are satisfied if only one makes it. The others turn 18, are shown the door, and end up with nothing. Our management is very attentive to ensuring every child has a future, so we have to guarantee either a professional career or a strong enough academic and sporting profile to get scholarships, especially in the United States.

"Our main markets for this are our presence in Ghana and Ivory Coast, and of course FC Masar in Egypt. When that club started competing for the title in the Egyptian Premier League and the CAF Champions League, it also began recruiting in other markets. For example, we signed Tanzanian player Hasnath Linus Ubamba at 18 for FC Masar; she played there for two years before transferring to a club in Spain.

"So we're active on the continent thanks to our academies in Ghana and Egypt, our club in Egypt, and our full-time recruitment in Africa."

Is it different coaching girls compared to boys? Have you adapted your method, which has been proven with boys, now that you have girls in the academy?

"Actually, no. We've discussed it, especially around what we call our style of play: every Right to Dream team must play a certain way - from where I sit, I try to have an overview of everything, and my wish is that when you watch FC Masar men or women, or FC Nordsjaelland, you recognise the same playing identity.

"We wondered if we should adapt anything, given the physical differences between boys and girls, men and women, but the technical group concluded that nothing needed to change. FC Masar women and FC Nordsjaelland women play the same way as the men's teams, including San Diego.

"It's a unified way of playing and developing, because we believe that's what allows players to reach the highest level. We want to see our players compete at the top global level: for women, that means England, the United States, or Spain; for men, the European top five: England, Spain, Italy, France, and Germany."

Do you have partnerships with local women's clubs around Ghana and Ivory Coast?

"Yes. I don't know if I'd call it a partnership in the strict sense, but we have collaborations with certain local clubs and academies who know we offer a good pathway for girls, who trust our model, and who send us their best players when we organise trials or tournaments."

Specifically, what do you offer these girls? You talk a lot about the academic pathway, but girls can now also become professionals - what do you say to a girl once she's selected to join Right to Dream?

"We offer a pathway, and a key element at Right to Dream is what we call "non-deselection." Once selected, if she agrees to join us, she is not deselected later. Generally, all academies worldwide, at the end of a season, deselect about 25% of their players based on their level, saying a player hasn't progressed enough, for example. We guarantee that they stay with us.

"If they want to stay, we guarantee them a place and a platform to develop at their own pace, because there are also late-maturing players who need more time and are often deselected elsewhere. From the parents' point of view, that's an important reason to join us - it gives peace of mind, it removes the pressure to perform in every match.

"We do things differently because we believe the best development happens in a calm environment, conducive to long-term work."

What is the typical pathway? Starting at Right to Dream in Ivory Coast or Ghana, then joining FC Nordsjaelland or maybe FC Masar?

"On both the men's and women's sides, we have a technical committee, where I sit as Right to Dream's representative, with the clubs and academies, and we discuss each player and their best possible pathway.

"Due to FIFA regulations, a player can't change continents before turning 18. For example, N'Sira Ouedraogo, who played with Ivory Coast at this AFCON, spent time in Ivory Coast and Ghana before joining FC Nordsjaelland this summer at 18.

"I understand why this rule exists - to protect minors; in the past, it could be a bit of a Wild West, with children moved around in ways that weren't good for anyone. But taken individually, for a player like her, this rule limited her development, because she was strong enough to play for FC Nordsjaelland's first team at 16.  She had to wait two years because of the rule, but those are the rules, and we follow them. The same 18-year-old rule applied for a possible transfer to FC Masar.

"Where we're a bit privileged in Europe is with what's called the Schengen rule (The FIFA exception allowing transfers of minors between EU countries from age 16). It's a rule linked to labour law that applies across European borders. That's how, for example, a 16-year-old Icelandic player in our squad was able to join FC Nordsjaelland at that age."

"Scouts were taking notes without realising they were watching girls"

I read that some of the best players train with boys. What does that look like day-to-day? And is there a rule about the age limit for playing with boys, or does that only apply to official matches?

"It all depends on what's best for each player and how to ensure continuity in her development.

"Some, at a certain point, develop enough by training with their own age and gender group, but take N'Sira Ouedraogo: she's exceptional, and she was strong enough to train with boys up to age 16, which is very rare, because normally at that age, the physical difference makes it complicated - boys become stronger and faster. In her case, she was well up to the level, so we let her train more with the boys because she needed that level of challenge. She was too far ahead of the girls.

"She's probably the player who has trained the most with boys rather than girls in her career. However, she can't play official matches with boys, but we've sometimes organised friendlies.

"The Ivorian players at this AFCON also took part in the Gothia Cup in Sweden, a boys-only tournament, in friendlies, and there were some funny stories of scouts in the stands taking notes without realising they were watching girls, the level was so deceptive."

Having 11 players from Right to Dream at this AFCON must be special. How do you feel about this?

"It makes us proud.

"I think our women's side has broken through a ceiling in the last three to five years. FC Masar finished third in the CAF Champions League with by far the youngest team in the tournament, with an average age of about 20.4 years. And last season, FC Nordsjaelland reached the quarter-finals of the new UEFA Women's Europa Cup with an average age of 21.5, with 11 teenagers in the squad.

"In many clubs, the first team decides everything and the academy waits for its decisions. With us, it's the opposite: the first team is there to serve the academy, to play its graduates. That's the whole point of the model.

"It proves you can be competitive in the CAF Champions League and UEFA European Cup with such young teams, mostly homegrown. That's the model: create the platform, create the development, play the players, and then they perform, are sold, and achieve their dreams, whether in the NWSL or Women's Super League. It sends a strong signal to the whole organisation."

Do you feel that more and more girls will be able to join national teams in the future, with the World Cup coming up next year?

"Absolutely. We feel like we're just at the beginning. We were among the pioneers of women's football globally, since it's still a recent investment for many, but we got involved early. We've only seen the start of it."

"We're proud when others copy us"

Do you think Right to Dream's massive investment in women's football can become a model and help grow African women's football globally?

"I hope so, yes. One of our privileges is to inspire others: we're proud when others copy us.

"Some clubs, on the contrary, try to hide their methods because they don't want to be copied - they think their model is unique. But the more clubs invest, the more pathways there are, the more opportunities for girls. That's really part of our approach: to inspire the sector and make a difference in Africa."

It's been 13 years since the women's program started. How have you seen this journey evolve, and how has global women's football changed over this period?

"There's no doubt, women's football is experiencing significant growth. We recently did a transfer market analysis: transfer fees are rising, the number of transfers is increasing, especially transfers of players under 21, which fits perfectly with our model, since we play and sell young.

"Our whole model, on both the men's and women's sides, is non-profit. All the money earned is reinvested, so the more revenue we generate, the more we can invest. That's a real personal privilege for me: our shareholders aren't looking to make a profit, they're looking to make a difference by reinvesting.

"We've already sold players from FC Nordsjaelland to Germany, England, and Italy; this transfer window, we've sold again to PSV Eindhoven and to Hammarby in Sweden. FC Masar has sold to the NWSL, and this window transferred Tanzanian player Hasnath Linus Ubamba to a club in Madrid. We're starting to be recognised on the world stage, and we keep pushing in that direction."

Looking back over the past 13 years, you already had the infrastructure on the men's side, but women's football wasn't really established. What was the situation like in Ghana and Ivory Coast at the start, and more broadly in local women's football?

"You could say it was around 2020 that we made the more deliberate choice to really invest, to build a women's academy at FC Nordsjaelland comparable to the boys', in terms of number of coaches, specialists, and football hours needed for development.

"Then in 2021, we launched the Egyptian academy, and we strengthened our investment in West Africa, moving from 'Let's help these girls access education' to 'Let's see if we can also produce professional players'. Today, with Princess Marfo as the first example, and now N'Sira Ouedraogo and Sery Grace in Ivory Coast, we're starting to see the effects of that investment. 

"It's fair to say that local women's football was quite raw and unstructured at the time, though Egyptian football has always had a decent national team. FC Masar's third place in the CAF Champions League is the best result in Egyptian women's football history, showing we've broken through a ceiling that seemed unreachable.

"I wasn't in Ghana at the time myself, but as far as I know, we were the first residential academy in Africa where girls were actually invited to live on site, combining school and football. It went from creating opportunities through education to proving we can now produce world-class players."

Was it easy to convince parents to entrust their daughters to your programs? There are sometimes quite conservative attitudes about girls playing football. How did you convince the parents?

"Part of the answer is that we offer the educational pathway as a form of guarantee, because you're right - if you bet only on football, it's an opportunity, but also a risk, in case of injury or not being selected. With us, we constantly work on both pathways in parallel.

"And when parents come to see our campus in Ghana, they discover an environment similar to a boarding school: teachers, psychosocial support, player monitoring, kitchen staff, security, coaches, supervisors. Parents feel it's a very safe and caring environment. It's a more holistic approach, and the fact that Right to Dream is now well known in Africa means parents trust us more easily too.

"What makes me proudest is when I talk to clubs that have signed our players: they don't just say the player is very good - we already know that; they tell us the person is great, the character is excellent. That's just as important to us as being good with the right foot."

"11 players at this AFCON is already great, but the number must keep growing"

What do you think is the secret to Right to Dream's success, especially on the women's side?

"I don't think there's really a secret. It all comes down to committed and aligned leadership.

"I believe the key for us is really alignment. From the top, our shareholders, down to the field, where someone is training with the girls or working on their education, everyone is aligned on what the pathway is, with consistency day to day. With that consistency, you can work without fear, you make progress, and you end up achieving your dreams. And non-deselection is an integral part of that, since we don't deselect every six or twelve months.

"I've worked at several other clubs, and the problem is often misalignment: someone disagrees, someone changes their mind at the top, and it breaks the consistency. We can be consistent because our shareholders are fully aligned with the project."

How do you see the future of Right to Dream on the women's side? You say you're just at the beginning, and you already have 11 players at this AFCON, which is impressive.

"If we take FC Masar as an example, the sporting director Mariam Hijazi has done a remarkable job building both the women's academy and a very young, competitive first team. Last season, four players who had been with the club for five years joined the squad. The model is just starting to prove that we can develop more and more professional players, and I hope we can build an even better future for FC Masar and the Egyptian national team.

"In the end, it's about constantly progressing and becoming even more global. A full-time recruiter dedicated to women's football can only improve our knowledge, our database, our chances of recruiting the right players and offering them the right development.

"Eleven players at this AFCON is already great, and we're proud of it, but just like on the men's side, that number must keep growing. On the men's side, we measure that by the number of players in the European top five leagues: England, Germany, France, Italy, and Spain - currently 16, a record. Something similar should happen on the women's side, with more and more players reaching the top leagues and performing there."

So we can imagine that one day, a Right to Dream player will play in the Women's Super League or NWSL?

"Exactly. We already have that, but we want more, and more from each site.

"The Egyptian academy is only five years old, which is very young for a football academy. The general rule is that it takes seven to ten years to really build an elite academy. So we're still very young there.

"Ghana is an older academy, but on the women's side, as a deliberate choice, it's not that old either - we're still only seeing the first fruits of that investment."

Do you imagine that one day, the entire Ghana women's national team could benefit from Right to Dream? Today, I believe there are two academy graduates in the squad.

"I hope so. As we've seen on the men's side, at the World Cup, where we had five players called up for the tournament, plus probably our best player, Mohammed Kudus, was injured. It's a way of giving something back to the country. So, I hope so."

Do you have a specific numerical target, for example, to have ten players in the top leagues in ten years, or do you not set that kind of goal?

"We do, but in a different way. On both the men's and women's sides, we measure the number of' top players' - that is, players capable of playing at the highest level - that each academy must produce per age group. That's the target each academy must reach by 2030."